Off The Map Discussion Board for Christians, Atheists and People In-between

[isaone]

Why is it that people insist on making something else responsible for the things that they acheive in their lives?


I just scanned a copy of 'The Secret' this movie is now a book and appears to be the latest new age 'Power of positive thinking' phenomena. Basically they state that there is a law of attraction through which the Universe is required to give each of us what we focus on. They repeat this endlessly with a variety of examples. Along the way they say some stuff that is probably helpful and some that I consider dangerous ("The Anti War movement creates War", "You can heal yourself of breast Cancer without treatment through Positive Thoughts and laughter")

What I realized while watching this is the parallel to my point of view on religions. In both cases I can see the positive effects of the recommended practices. Positive thinking, prayer, living a good life, being in community, being focused on the goals you want to achieve. All of these and others are practices which I agree can have a dramatic positive effect on our lives. My question is "Why do people feel it necessary to put the responsibility of 'listening' to these requests on some imaginary Father figure (God) or some even more imaginary Universe/energy/Law thingy?

Research has already shown the physiological benefits of some of these practices and there are logical 'Bright' rationals for the rest. For example I believe that people seem to get what they focus on because 1) We all have a positive bias in that we remember our hits and forget our misses and 2) By focusing on a desired goal we are more likely to take actions related toachieving that goal.

For me the concept that I am in control without the need for some external force, is more empowering then the other why an I in such a minority?

[Karen]

[Mike C]

[MTran]

Karen,

I followed your link to Salon and, yecch! The excerpt from the book totally grossed me out. The witer just sounds plain weird to me.

It wasn't made entirely clear but she seemed to refer to San Francisco as perhaps being her current location. Well, I've lived in the Bay Area for quite a few years and I've never seen a more religion-friendly region anywhere else in the US. If she never encountered religion-positive people in her daily life, she sure led a sheltered existence.

And that's the impression I get of this "journalist." She has led a rather narrow existence, although I'm sure she would characteraze her life quite the opposite. Of course, this was just an excerpt from a much longer book, I may be completely wrong in my assesment. But this excerpt is so weird, distasteful, and alien to me, I don't think I could stomach more of it.

[By alien I mean that there was not a single statement in the exceprt that rang true to me or had any resonance or sense of familiarity. If anything, it seemed surreal. Something written by someone taking a weird drug or substance that distorted reality so much that the story lacks coherency to me.)

[MTran]

[Karen]

[Karen]

[isaone]

Well I must admit that I have been called a lot of things as a result of my posting but "Mutant", that is a first. Does that mean I can get a section of Heroes now? Nah, no one would actually believe that my power (not believing in supernatural) could exist. I really think that most of the public find it easier to understand/believe/accept someone's ability to read minds than to not believe God.

To my initial post, is it possible that there is a practical purpose to ceding control to an outside entity even if imaginary(IMO)? To me that seems un empowering but perhaps that is only due to another manifestation of my alien genetics.

[MTran]

Karen,

Thanks for the friendly welcome.

I may have overstated my perceptions about the alien-ness of the writer's descriptions but not by much. The reprductive analogies certainly sounded unwholesome to me. It made me wonder whether she was deliberately trying to be provocative or if she totally misjudged the likely reception for such descriptions.

Based on the short excerpt, I wouldn't want to make a judgment about her as a person. But unless the rest of the book is substantially different, she comes across as a person who has led a very constricted life while believeing herself to be cosmopolitain and sophisticated.

I'm curious about your own experiences. The parts of the excerpt that sounded very familiar to you -- was it that the style of the "I found the way" story that was familiar or was it the specific details she mentioned?

I dunno, St. John of the Cross had some rather stunning descriptions of his experiences through his Dark Night of the Soul. Now, I've never been a Catholic but St. John's writings, made much more sense, and emotional connectedness, to me than what this 21st Century ex-secularist journalist wrote.

[Keith]

[MTran]

You know, I don't mind if someone gives credit to god for their own good fortune. What bothers me, however, is the refusal to give credit or thanks to other people who have made significant contributions or gave assistance to the believer along the way. And I've seen this sort of behavior among some literalists. If you've ever seen the old movie with Sidney Poitier, The Lillies of the Field, you'll know what I mean.

I'm an atheist and have been for a long time. But one tradition I have always thought highly of is the practice of thanksgiving. When I give thanks to my family, friends, colleagues and all the anonymous people on whom I depend, it helps to keep me better grounded. It also reminds me that we are all part of a huge social web of inter-dependent individuals. And the more highly urbanized we become, the more dependent we become on the efforts and good faith of others, most of whom will remain strangers to us.

[Karen]

[Karen]

[Karen]

[Keith]