Off The Map Discussion Board for Christians, Atheists and People In-between

[Marty]

Over the years I have wrestled with Discerment - how I Discern and I became very interested in how others discern. Below describes what I came to on this subject (the result of about three months of this question bouncing around in my head). I look forward to hearing others thoughts on this subject.

Discernment

Discernment is what guides the decisions about what is truth for each of us.

Discernment is the choice of what to believe, what to reject, who to listen to, what to read or study, what not to read or study and how to interpret all of this information. Discernment can be a part of the process whereby beliefs become knowings.

Our source of discernment is something within us that makes decisions - but based on what? This is a great mystery that I don't expect I will ever completely comprehend.

My discernment (what I believe) is that my truth comes from what is within me that connects with God. As I believe that God resides within all of us, this discernment comes from within me.

The role of discernment can be demonstrated relative to the Bible.

Why choose to believe in the Bible in the 1st place? Is the Bible pure? What has been the history of the Bible as it has come to us and what have been the roles of church leaders in manipulating perisioners through it? Why have so many wars been as a result of people interpreting the Bible differently? How do we interpret the Bible? Literally? Using what translation? If it is literally how to we deal with things like - "an eye for and eye and tooth for a tooth" with "Thou Shalt Not Kill" and then how do we apply that to our own beliefs on Capital Punishment? Some literally and some non-literally? How do we choose? The Bible can be interpreted to support most any belief system by selective choice of certain passages and avoidance of others. How do we choose? Maybe it is by what a Bible scholar, minister or friend says. But why and how do we choose that advisor? People tend to read only those things that support what they already believe and refuse to study anything that is different than what they believe. Things that are different than what we believe are often demonized before they are understood. Why do we read, listen and study if it is only to support what we already believe? Why do we feel so threatened to study things that are different than our core beliefs? Why do people think they have the ability or right to try to discern for someone else? What would have happened if, as a child, we would have been exposed equally to all religions and been encouraged to make our own choice? I have found an incredible shift in my belief systems when I am able to get to know and listen to someone who is different from me, i.e. homosexual or Buddhist or homeless. I am aghast at my judgementalness in advance and the change that comes over me when I move beyond my pre-judgements (prejudice) and get to know someone who I judged as undesirable. I am aghast that I continue to do this over and over again.

For me, discernment only comes when information is in its simplest, easy to understand form. This is why I have big problems with King James English. This is why I tune into the Peace Pilgrim, the Dalai Lama or Legia Dantes.

In discerning relative to listening to others I tune into their body language, tone of voice, glint in their eyes, simplicity, gentleness and how their beliefs manifest in their lives. If they manifest inner peace, love, compassion, service, giving to others and a loving energy, their talk and actions are congruent, they are willing to reveal their inner world - I am drawn to learn from them and tend to learn from their message. If the manifestation is harshness, judgementalness, separating and/or demonizing people, anger, talk and actions are not congruent, lack of inner peace, arrogance, preaching down to others, my learning from them is that they demonstrate what I do not want and am very skeptical of their message. However, these have been great experiences that have led me into reasoning through "if that is not what I want and believe, what is it that I want and believe." This resulted in my writing "What Do I Believe" and "What Do I want from a Teacher, Mentor or Guru." Discernment never succumbs or acquiesces to pressure.

I am focusing on improving my abilities to discern, which for me is my direct connections to God. I am tuned into those who teach how to connect directly to God. These include the Peace Pilgrim, the Dalai Lama, Legia Dantes and the Quakers. I am drawn to those who bring us together and search for the common goodness that we have. I am repelled away from those who separate us, focus on our differences - including political parties and religions who do not respect those with other beliefs - those who want to debate and are unwilling to respectfully dialog.

My direct connection to God comes to me primarily in the moments when I am conscious but not fully awake in the morning and the Ah Hah's that come throughout the day. It comes from a constant intent to have God speak directly to me and to help me discern all that comes to me.

[Eliza]

Marty,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and path. You've clearly thought alot about this and have great insights. Your comments on the Bible resonate w/ me, though I've gone a different direction after having those doubts. I had never heard of Peace Pilgrim & Ligia Dantes, am intrigued by the info found about them online after seeing your mention of them. Thanks!

My father grew up Quaker, from a long line of Quakers, now nonobservant. I've gone to meeting a few times over the years, definitely prefer their approach to any other church I've visited, but have still found that many who are moved to speak at meeting (at least the 3 meetings I've visited, in different states) are Bible-focused. Have you found that to be the case? (If so, how do you reconcile that focus with your questions about the applicability of the Bible?)

[Marty]

Hi Eliza - thanx for your input and feedback.

I know too well about what you experienced where some Quakers find it an opportunity to preach - which is certainly different than what the vast majority of Quakers believe in and do. We had one person that would go on for 15 minutes with a sermon - and it would drive me - and many others nuts - we would roll our eyes at one another. But I am sure that there was a lesson in there somewhere for me - certainly patience and endurance - but maybe even more - that I can't get in contact with.

Most of the Quaker sharings I have found to be very simple, short (typically 3 minutes) introspective and profound. Because they are short and there is much time in between those who share - I tend to remember most of the sharings.

My wife and I were married Quaker three years ago - and that was a very profound experience. No one officiates and 21 people spoke at our wedding.